Family and salary consideration

[No way]

Anyone with 2 kids need at least 20k per month household income - that is bare minimum to fund rent, school, trips home etc. If you come with a tight budget you may be in problems if prices rise steeply for rent or school which sometimes happen. French school may be cheaper now but that can change - one of the other 'cheaper' schools recently announced fee hikes of nearly 20%. Annual school fee increases of 5 to 10% should be built into your budget. Rentals can also be volatile - if your rent renewal comes up during a mini boom period, hikes of 50 and even 100% are not unheard of - where would that leave you on such a tight budget to start with? One other factor that may be overlooked, if you cannot afford posh private school at home and have the opportunity in the future to get places at a good state school then you may lose that opportunity if you come here for too long. I have been here 5 years and given the age of my kids now, they missed the secondary school selection process back home - if we are forced to return home in the next few years then they would have little hope of getting into a top tier state school as all places will have been taken.

[JohnSIN]

Anyone with 2 kids need at least 20k per month household income - that is bare minimum to fund rent, school, trips home etc. If you come with a tight budget you may be in problems if prices rise steeply for rent or school which sometimes happen. French school may be cheaper now but that can change - one of the other 'cheaper' schools recently announced fee hikes of nearly 20%. Annual school fee increases of 5 to 10% should be built into your budget. Rentals can also be volatile - if your rent renewal comes up during a mini boom period, hikes of 50 and even 100% are not unheard of - where would that leave you on such a tight budget to start with? One other factor that may be overlooked, if you cannot afford posh private school at home and have the opportunity in the future to get places at a good state school then you may lose that opportunity if you come here for too long. I have been here 5 years and given the age of my kids now, they missed the secondary school selection process back home - if we are forced to return home in the next few years then they would have little hope of getting into a top tier state school as all places will have been taken.

Interesting post. But not sure how $240K is the minimum for a family of four? Main $ expenses with data? Main family budget items to share?
Good point on the potential double digits increase.

Sounds like a good link to share, not sure how "precise" it is though
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Singapore&city1=Singapore&country2=United+States&city2=New+York%2C+NY&displayCurrency=SGD

Another one:
http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/singapore/new-york-city

I understand that those 2 links don't have the quality of a Mercer survey, but do show some precise examples of costs of livings from New York and Singapore.

Bonus article: expat life is not for everyone:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16789231

[PrimroseHill]

John, like you, we as a family are planning to relocate to SIN. However, unlike you we plan to make this a permanent relocation. I am offered with my job a heathly relocation package but without the  school fees - with one way biz class tickets, household shipping, excess baggage, sign on bonus, rental deposit, utility deposit, medical insurance for the family, etc.

We live in London, central London and like what others said, local state/public school depends on the location and distance of your home. In London it is within 1mile radius and the good schools are thousandfolds over subscribed. We aren't ultra high income earners here in UK but have a comfortable lifestyle, we have at least 2 major/big holidays a year and reasonable savings plan. I am off Oriental extraction and we holiday across the causeway at least once a year and to the US in the summer. We have a cleaner that comes in weekly for a few hours and we pay approx £10 pe hour. We use public transport here, hardly take any cabs, mainly buses and tubes. We cook an awful lot, eat out an awful lot too, but not to Michelin star restaurants either. We have one daughter and she goes to a private school and for that pleasure we pay £15k pa.

In SIN, we will have a combine monthly income of $30k approx. We are budgeting $5-$8k on rental, eventually buying once we are settled in etc etc. School fees will be approx $30-$35k pa, ulities $1k per month. We have no plans on coming back to the UK annually. We eat a lot of fish and poultry here in UK and it is surprisingly expensive. We hardly drink alcohol. We have a gym membership here that costs £280 per quarter. The last quarter for electricity and gas heating in London for us was £2400.

[JohnSIN]

Hello PrimroseHill,

Your $30K package sounds OK for a family of 3. (just my 2 cents)

For your budget, if not already done, add a line for your tax (about 4000 per month I think), assessing it with this great excel "offficial" tool:
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/uploadedFiles/Quick_Links/Copy%20of%20Tax_Cal_Final_170211_IRAS.xls

I would suggest, if not already done, to put down these budget items on monthly or annual basis and compute the savings you will generate at the end.

Rent: 8000
School fees 3000
Tax 4000
Sub-total: 15000 or half your monthly budget

Others budget items:
food
kid activities
school transportation
travel
part time maid
utilities
transportation
misc. (oh my favorite)

When you say "medical insurance" is covered, there is no monthly fees for you to pay? We live in the US, and even if we say we are "covered" by our company, there is a still a monthly fee, nothing dramatic, around $200 per month, so I would assume Singapore use the same concept.

Do you have also retirement compensation?

Good luck for the transition!

[Kafka]

John, like you, we as a family are planning to relocate to SIN. However, unlike you we plan to make this a permanent relocation. I am offered with my job a heathly relocation package but without the  school fees - with one way biz class tickets, household shipping, excess baggage, sign on bonus, rental deposit, utility deposit, medical insurance for the family, etc.

We live in London, central London and like what others said, local state/public school depends on the location and distance of your home. In London it is within 1mile radius and the good schools are thousandfolds over subscribed. We aren't ultra high income earners here in UK but have a comfortable lifestyle, we have at least 2 major/big holidays a year and reasonable savings plan. I am off Oriental extraction and we holiday across the causeway at least once a year and to the US in the summer. We have a cleaner that comes in weekly for a few hours and we pay approx £10 pe hour. We use public transport here, hardly take any cabs, mainly buses and tubes. We cook an awful lot, eat out an awful lot too, but not to Michelin star restaurants either. We have one daughter and she goes to a private school and for that pleasure we pay £15k pa.

In SIN, we will have a combine monthly income of $30k approx. We are budgeting $5-$8k on rental, eventually buying once we are settled in etc etc. School fees will be approx $30-$35k pa, ulities $1k per month. We have no plans on coming back to the UK annually. We eat a lot of fish and poultry here in UK and it is surprisingly expensive. We hardly drink alcohol. We have a gym membership here that costs £280 per quarter. The last quarter for electricity and gas heating in London for us was £2400.

What are you plans to make the move permanent? PR would be the first step, but beyond work/money of course, would you consider taking up the citizenship (which means renounce your current one) ? Even being a PR here, I still consider myself at the mercy of any change in immigration policy, no to mention the P in PR is misleading as PR needs to be renewed every 5 years... So, if you see this move as permanent, that's something to consider.
Lucky for you your child is a girl, so no headaches when it comes to NS, consider this if you plan on expanding the family in the future (assuming you will at some point apply for PR).
And yes, 30K/month is good enough (very good IMHO !).

[Compensation expert]

Don't ever give up on your citizenship. Your value in Singapore would be significantly diminished by taking up citizenship and you have no exit option.

PR is good enough. Renewal of PR is the norm in most developed country. Singapore has one of the easiest PR renewal fulfillment term.

[PrimroseHill]

Thank you so much for your replies, Kafta, John and Compensation expert.
After an appropriate amount of time, we will apply for PR and PR we will remain.
John, I have worked and completed that excel spreadsheet from iras. Its pretty nifty, isn't it. There are reliefs - maid, elderly parents, children etc etc.
All of which are true since I am paying for all of that here now.
John, how's your negiotiation coming along?

[JohnSIN]

Thank you so much for your replies, Kafta, John and Compensation expert.
After an appropriate amount of time, we will apply for PR and PR we will remain.
John, I have worked and completed that excel spreadsheet from iras. Its pretty nifty, isn't it. There are reliefs - maid, elderly parents, children etc etc.
All of which are true since I am paying for all of that here now.
John, how's your negiotiation coming along?

You're welcome, I got some very constructive replies in this forum, so I'm trying to get back... Yes the excel doc is great. I wish the US tax system was that simple... But I guess a state of 5 milion people cannot compare to a state of 311 million, but that's another debate
On my side negotiation went well, we are going!

[PrimroseHill]

Don't ever give up on your citizenship. Your value in Singapore would be significantly diminished by taking up citizenship and you have no exit option.

PR is good enough. Renewal of PR is the norm in most developed country. Singapore has one of the easiest PR renewal fulfillment term.

Thats all I aim to have and be. PR in Spore. Maybe one day when Spore allows dual

[USexpat]

I'm quite late to the party, but thought I'd chime in with my budget. I think it's very doable, and most of the naysayers tend to either be the "1%" from the US mentioned so often now in the media, or are other expats who are more KIASU (look it up ) than the locals and need to keep up with those 1% expats...

Anyway, I'm currently making about 13k/month for a family of three. I'm living a very hybrid local/expat life, and saving buckets of money.

Rent: 2600/month - We live "local". I'm in a rented HDB, 3I, which is 2 bedroom with an "extra" room in back. Most locals make this another bedroom.  The unit is about 800 sq/ft which is comparable size to most condos, and I have a full-on un-obstructed via of the "sea".  I'm about a 5 minute walk from the beach.  Comparable Condos would be 2-2.5x.  But we don't need the "facilities" living next to East Coast.  The unit itself is very clean, our neighbors are also clean, polite, and very quiet, and the whole experience has been rather pleasant. 

Water and Power: 120-150/month for Water and power.  We use the A/C most nights, but fans by day.

Singtel bill: $170/month.  We pay for the fastest "MIO" internet (our building doesn't have fiber) and the basic TV service. This also includes two cell phone lines, the package that costs ~$55 a month. There is a 20% or so discount on the whole thing when you bundle all of it.

Food: ~$1300/month.  Almost half of this is my lunches on work days, and my coffee habit.  "Western" coffee here, even Starbucks, is about twice what you pay in the US.  My wife shops the wet markets, and NTUC, and is quite the frugal gourmet.  But, she does not skimp on organic produce at Cold Storage either. I'd like to say her hatred of food from mainland China is irrational, but she's probably adding decades onto our lives

Transportation: ~200/month.  My office is a quick 10 minute/70 cent bus ride each eay.  The remainder is for random taxi rides.

Education: Nothing yet. Child is only 10 months

Travel:  250/month? Almost negligible, maybe $1k 2-3 times a year?  I have a huge advantage here in that my company doesn't give me flights home, but will let me fly the whole family coach on any business trip (as opposed to BizClass for me). I take advantage of this to get to the US.

So total expenditures is under 5k.  That's 8k into the bank, more like ~6.5-7k after "entertainment" and other such expenses.  This doesn't include bonuses (which is paid as RSUs into a US account, so it's easier to think "out of sight out of mind")

My family's profile is myself, 30yrs old, my wife who is 25yr old and grew up in Vietnam (which is why she's so frugal!) and a baby.  Expenses will obviously go up when our daughter enters school, but I'm (so far) planning to have her attend local classes supplemented by something outside to help with the concerns about "creativity".

I know this isn't much like your situation, but just wanted to share so you can get an idea of other alternatives to the snooty expat... 

[JohnSIN]

Thank you very much USexpat for sharing your lifestyle and associated budget! Very refreshing to see that money is not everything as some expats tends to think about living in Singapore.
Each family situation is different but your info provides a great insight about to live well without earning 30K SDG and having difficulties to make it...

I agree with you, the "look it up" is very damaging for your own "pursuit of happiness". Different values I guess.

Yes, we have 2 children, one in school age and will choose to live in a larger apartment (tired of "medium size" ones in New York and Washington...). Lucky you for travel! Good to hear that organic food is somewhat accessible, even if I saw crazy prices on milk, any tips for organic produces by the way?

[to FFS]

Is anyone forcing you read the thread? No, didn't think so, so quit bring a twat and go troll stomp or asiaone.

John:  We generally shop Cold Storage or NTUC Finest (upscale NTUC) for organic stuff. Cold Storage has a slightly better selection, but it's also pricier and they don't have as much turn-over as NTUC, so the stuff definitely sits on the shelf there longer.  The meats are also much fresher and cheaper at NTUC, so it's usually easier to just go there.  We can't cut Cold Storage completely though;  the wife buys some special "baby" yogurt for our daughter, and they're the only ones that stock it.  $13 for for small servings. So yah,  the budget above isn't completely frugal items

[GoodSense]

It was interesting to read USExpat's post. Technically, that is not an expatriate lifestyle at all, since you are being paid as a local (and, it would appear, in a lower level position) and are conducting your life as if you were a local. So you are actually "FormerlyUS,NowLocalin Singapore". Most Westerners who move to Singapore for work reasons expect a higher standard of living here, before moving on to their next career opportunity. You appear to have settled here.

[You Misread]

Actually, it's "twelve bloody pages" (your words) of how difficult it is to save $5 a month. Get it now?

[to GoodSense]

Perhaps you're correct.  Although according to most salary surveys I come across, I'm quite well paid compared to most locals. But yes, I'm on "Local terms", no fancy package.

I never knew the term "expat" had anything to do with what lifestyle someone lived.  In fact, the first thing that comes to my mind with the word "expat" are american, british and aussie guys enjoying the easy life on the beach in random places like Vietnam or Thailand.  Not quite only the bankers and directors with the family on short term assignments with compensation packages worth $40k/month+. 

And while those positions obviously still exist, I'm surprised that so many people on this forum seem to think they're all so common still.  Even if we go by the US IRS's stats, over 90% of American tax payers overseas fall under the earned income exclusion, and pay no taxes.  So that's under $94K US a year.  I'm above that and paying a fair amount for the 'privilege' of keeping my passport.