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Author Topic: Science Disproves Evolution  (Read 435981 times)
oldmike
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« Reply #1785 on: 21 February 2016, 22:56:48 PM »

Quote
 
How is it totally wrong?   

Read the Wikipedia article.

When are we going to see a peer reviewed experiment showing that radioactive decay rates can
be accelerated by factors of millions?
If the Bible is an accurate scientific document, why does the Bible class a bat as a bird?

Leviticus 11:13-19New International Version (NIV)

13 “‘These are the birds you are to regard as unclean and not eat because they are unclean: the eagle,[a] the vulture, the black vulture, 14 the red kite, any kind of black kite, 15 any kind of raven, 16 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 17 the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, 18 the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, 19 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.
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« Reply #1786 on: 22 February 2016, 4:47:33 AM »

Quote
 
How is it totally wrong?   

Quote
Read the Wikipedia article.

If it took millions of years to lay down those strata, why are there no signs of erosion between them?

Quote
When are we going to see a peer reviewed experiment showing that radioactive decay rates can
be accelerated by factors of millions?

I have provided that evidence and you rejected it. When are we going to see evidence the following statement is false:

Before the universe existed there was nothing from which it appeared, which is impossible by any natural cause. Therefor the cause of the universe was supernatural, proving the existence of God.
Unless and until evolutionists/atheists can conduct a repeatable experiment, verified by qualified scientists demonstrating that statement is untrue, their pronouncements must be regarded with the same respect as those of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
The fact that the appearance of the universe has not been shown to be possible by any natural cause by real scientists shows that the evolutionists/atheists view is pie in the sky.

http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138&Itemid=71
http://www.apologeticspress.ws/articles/1762
http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=137
   http://www.existence-of-god.com/first-cause-argument.html
http://www.existence-of-god.com/existence-of-god.html
http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

Quote
If the Bible is an accurate scientific document, why does the Bible class a bat as a bird?

Leviticus 11:13-19New International Version (NIV)

13 “‘These are the birds you are to regard as unclean and not eat because they are unclean: the eagle,[a] the vulture, the black vulture, 14 the red kite, any kind of black kite, 15 any kind of raven, 16 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 17 the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, 18 the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, 19 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.

Because you do not understand Hebrew. The Hebrew word translated ‘bird’ is ‘ôwph, and simply means ‘winged/flying creature’—it is derived from ‘ûwph meaning ‘to fly’.

http://creation.com/ian-plimers-bloopers-a-selection
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« Reply #1787 on: 22 February 2016, 14:37:47 PM »

These links:

Quote

All these links refer to arguments for the existence of God and His creation of the universe. I have never disputed these facts. It is a far cry from accepting God's existence and belief in the Hebrew creation myth.



Quote
  Unless and until evolutionists/atheists can conduct a repeatable experiment, verified by qualified scientists demonstrating that statement is untrue, their pronouncements must be regarded with the same respect as those of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.   


As I have said often before, evolution has nothing to say about the origin of life. It is a typical creationist ploy to claim that Evolution  is necessarily atheistic and then to attack it on those grounds.

When are we going to see a peer reviewed experiment showing that radioactive decay rates can be accelerated by factors of millions?
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« Reply #1788 on: 24 February 2016, 23:54:11 PM »

A Young Universe?


Most Scientific Dating Techniques Indicate That the Earth, Solar System, and Universe Are Young.

For the last 150 years, the age of the Earth, as assumed by evolutionists, has been doubling at roughly a rate of once every 15 years. In fact, since 1900 this age has multiplied by a factor of 100!

Evolution requires an old Earth, an old solar system, and an old universe. Nearly all informed evolutionists will admit that without billions of years their theory is dead. Yet, hiding the “origins question” behind a vast veil of time makes the unsolvable problems of evolution difficult for scientists to see and laymen to imagine. Our media and textbooks have implied for over a century that these almost unimaginable ages are correct. Rarely do people examine the shaky assumptions and growing body of contrary evidence. Therefore, most people today almost instinctively believe that the Earth and universe are billions of years old. Sometimes, these people are disturbed, at least initially, when they see the evidence.

Actually, most dating techniques indicate that the Earth and solar system are young—possibly less than 10,000 years old.  Here are some of these points of evidence:


Helium


One product of radioactive decay within rocks is helium, a light gas. This helium enters the atmosphere—at a much faster rate than it escapes the atmosphere. (Large amounts of helium should not escape into outer space, even when considering helium’s low atomic weight.)  Radioactive decay of only uranium and thorium would produce all the atmosphere’s helium in only 40,000 years.  Therefore, the atmosphere appears to be young (a).

a. “What Happened to the Earth’s Helium?” New Scientist, Vol. 24, 3 December 1964, pp. 631–632.

Melvin A. Cook, Prehistory and Earth Models  (London: Max Parrish, 1966), pp. 10–14.

Melvin A. Cook, “Where is the Earth’s Radiogenic Helium?” Nature,   Vol. 179, 26 January 1957, p. 213.

Joseph W. Chamberlain, Theory of Planetary Atmospheres (New York: Academic Press, 1987), pp. 371–372.

From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown
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« Reply #1789 on: 25 February 2016, 0:26:15 AM »

Quote
   Nearly all informed evolutionists will admit that without billions of years their theory is dead.   

Quite correct.

Quote
  Actually, most dating techniques indicate that the Earth and solar system are young—possibly less than 10,000 years old.  Here are some of these points of evidence:
   

Not so.
The earth is over 4 billion years old.

Quote
  One product of radioactive decay within rocks is helium, a light gas. This helium enters the atmosphere—at a much faster rate than it escapes the atmosphere. (Large amounts of helium should not escape into outer space, even when considering helium’s low atomic weight.)  Radioactive decay of only uranium and thorium would produce all the atmosphere’s helium in only 40,000 years.  Therefore, the atmosphere appears to be young (a). 

This argument is based on faulty "science" 
1. Accumulation of Helium in the atmosphere
The young-Earth argument goes something like this: helium-4 is created by radioactive decay (alpha particles are helium nuclei) and is constantly added to the atmosphere. Helium is not light enough to escape the Earth's gravity (unlike hydrogen), and it will therefore accumulate over time. The current level of helium in the atmosphere would accumulate in less than two hundred thousand years, therefore the Earth is young. (I believe this argument was originally put forth by Mormon young-Earther Melvin Cook, in a letter to the editor which was published in Nature.)

But helium can and does escape from the atmosphere, at rates calculated to be nearly identical to rates of production. In order to obtain a young age from their calculations, young-Earthers handwave away mechanisms by which helium can escape. For example, Henry Morris says:

"There is no evidence at all that Helium 4 either does, or can, escape from the exosphere in significant amounts." ( Morris 1974, p. 151 )

But Morris is wrong. Surely one cannot "invent" a good dating mechanism by simply ignoring processes which work in the opposite direction of the process which the date is based upon. Dalrymple says:

"Banks and Holzer (12) have shown that the polar wind can account for an escape of (2 to 4) x 106 ions/cm2 /sec of 4He, which is nearly identical to the estimated production flux of (2.5 +/- 1.5) x 106 atoms/cm2/sec. Calculations for 3He lead to similar results, i.e., a rate virtually identical to the estimated production flux. Another possible escape mechanism is direct interaction of the solar wind with the upper atmosphere during the short periods of lower magnetic-field intensity while the field is reversing. Sheldon and Kern (112) estimated that 20 geomagnetic-field reversals over the past 3.5 million years would have assured a balance between helium production and loss." ( Dalrymple 1984, p. 112 )

Dalrymple's references:

(12) Banks, P. M. & T. E. Holzer. 1969. "High-latitude plasma transport: the polar wind" in Journal of Geophysical Research 74, pp. 6317-6332.
(112) Sheldon, W. R. & J. W. Kern. 1972. "Atmospheric helium and geomagnetic field reversals" in Journal of Geophysical Research 77, pp. 6194-6201.

The above is taken from this publication:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html

A final quote from this publication:

Quote
Rates of radiometric decay (the ones relevant to radiometric dating) are thought to be based on rather fundamental properties of matter, such as the probability per unit time that a certain particle can "tunnel" out of the nucleus of the atom. The nucleus is well-insulated and therefore is relatively immune to larger-scale effects such as pressure or temperature.

Significant changes to rates of radiometric decay of isotopes relevant to geological dating have never been observed under any conditions. Emery (1972) is a comprehensive survey of experimental results and theoretical limits on variation of decay rates. Note that the largest changes reported by Emery are both irrelevant (they do not involve isotopes or modes of decay used for this FAQ), and minuscule (decay rate changed by of order 1%) compared to the change needed to compress the apparent age of the Earth into the young-Earthers' timescale 

When can we see the peer reviewed results of experiments refuting this?
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« Reply #1790 on: 27 February 2016, 3:49:34 AM »


A final quote from this publication:

Quote
Rates of radiometric decay (the ones relevant to radiometric dating) are thought to be based on rather fundamental properties of matter, such as the probability per unit time that a certain particle can "tunnel" out of the nucleus of the atom. The nucleus is well-insulated and therefore is relatively immune to larger-scale effects such as pressure or temperature.

Significant changes to rates of radiometric decay of isotopes relevant to geological dating have never been observed under any conditions. Emery (1972) is a comprehensive survey of experimental results and theoretical limits on variation of decay rates. Note that the largest changes reported by Emery are both irrelevant (they do not involve isotopes or modes of decay used for this FAQ), and minuscule (decay rate changed by of order 1%) compared to the change needed to compress the apparent age of the Earth into the young-Earthers' timescale 

When can we see the peer reviewed results of experiments refuting this?


Given.

Before the universe existed there was nothing from which it appeared, which is impossible by any natural cause. Therefor the cause of the universe was supernatural, proving the existence of God.

Unless and until evolutionists/atheists can conduct a repeatable experiment, verified by qualified scientists demonstrating that statement is untrue, their pronouncements must be regarded with the same respect as those of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The fact that the appearance of the universe has not been shown to be possible by any natural cause by real scientists shows that the evolutionists/atheists view is pie in the sky.

http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138&Itemid=71
http://www.apologeticspress.ws/articles/1762
http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=137
   http://www.existence-of-god.com/first-cause-argument.html
http://www.existence-of-god.com/existence-of-god.html
http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html
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« Reply #1791 on: 27 February 2016, 4:31:22 AM »

Quote

Before the universe existed there was nothing from which it appeared, which is impossible by any natural cause. Therefor the cause of the universe was supernatural, proving the existence of God.

Unless and until evolutionists/atheists can conduct a repeatable experiment, verified by qualified scientists demonstrating that statement is untrue, their pronouncements must be regarded with the same respect as those of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The fact that the appearance of the universe has not been shown to be possible by any natural cause by real scientists shows that the evolutionists/atheists view is pie in the sky.

I will type this slowly so that you can read it.


All evolutionists are not atheists.
As I have said often before, Evolution has nothing to say about the creation of the universe or the origin of life.


Rates of radiometric decay (the ones relevant to radiometric dating) are thought to be based on rather fundamental properties of matter, such as the probability per unit time that a certain particle can "tunnel" out of the nucleus of the atom. The nucleus is well-insulated and therefore is relatively immune to larger-scale effects such as pressure or temperature.

Significant changes to rates of radiometric decay of isotopes relevant to geological dating have never been observed under any conditions. Emery (1972) is a comprehensive survey of experimental results and theoretical limits on variation of decay rates. Note that the largest changes reported by Emery are both irrelevant (they do not involve isotopes or modes of decay used for this FAQ), and minuscule (decay rate changed by of order 1%) compared to the change needed to compress the apparent age of the Earth into the young-Earthers' timescale

When can we see the peer reviewed results of experiments refuting this?




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« Reply #1792 on: 03 March 2016, 1:04:20 AM »

Lead and Helium Diffusion


Lead diffuses (or leaks) from zircon crystals at known rates that increase with temperature. Because these crystals are found at different depths in the Earth, those at greater depths and temperatures should have less lead. If the Earth’s crust is just a fraction of the age claimed by evolutionists, measurable differences in the lead content of zircons should exist in the top 4,000 meters. Instead, no measurable difference is found (a).

Similar conclusions are reached based on the helium content in these same zircon crystals (b). Because helium escapes so rapidly and so much helium is still in zircons, they (and the Earth’s crust) must be less than 10,000 years old (c). Furthermore, the radioactive decay that produced all that helium must have happened quite rapidly, because the helium is trapped in young zircons.

a. “Taken together, these results strongly suggest that there has been little or no differential Pb loss which can be attributed to the higher temperatures existing at greater depths.” Robert V. Gentry et al., “Differential Lead Retention in Zircons: Implications for Nuclear Waste Containment,” Science, 16 April 1982, p. 296.

Robert V. Gentry, “Letters,” Physics Today, October 1982, pp. 13–14.

b. Robert V. Gentry, “Letters,” Physics Today, April 1983, p. 13.

c. “In fact, considering the Precambrian age of the granite cores, our results show an almost phenomenal amount of He has been retained at higher temperatures, and the reason for this certainly needs further investigation ...” Robert V. Gentry et al., “Differential Helium Retention in Zircons,” Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 9, No. 10, October 1982, p. 1130.

Robert V. Gentry, personal communication, 24 February 1984.

D. Russell Humphreys et al., “Helium Diffusion Rates Support Accelerated Nuclear Decay,” Proceedings of the Fifth International Conference on Creationism (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania: Creation Science Fellowship, Inc., 2003), pp. 175–195.

From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown
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« Reply #1793 on: 03 March 2016, 15:17:57 PM »

You have pasted this nonsense several times.

Follow the link below for a detailed analysis and refutation of these claims:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/helium/zircons.html
The first few lines are:

Dr. Humphreys' Young-Earth Helium Diffusion "Dates"

Numerous Fallacies Based on Bad Assumptions and Questionable Data

by Kevin R. Henke, Ph.D.
 
Copyright © 2005-2010
This document is also available in PDF format.
[Original version: March 17, 2005]
[Revisions: November 24, 2005; July 25, 2006 and June 20, 2010]
The following material may be distributed as long as the author is acknowledged, the material is not sold and the text and its internet links are not altered or edited.


Significant changes to rates of radiometric decay of isotopes relevant to geological dating have never been observed under any conditions. Emery (1972) is a comprehensive survey of experimental results and theoretical limits on variation of decay rates. Note that the largest changes reported by Emery are both irrelevant (they do not involve isotopes or modes of decay used for this FAQ), and minuscule (decay rate changed by of order 1%) compared to the change needed to compress the apparent age of the Earth into the young-Earthers' timescale

When can we see the peer reviewed results of experiments refuting this?
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« Reply #1794 on: 04 March 2016, 0:12:45 AM »

You have pasted this nonsense several times.

Follow the link below for a detailed analysis and refutation of these claims:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/helium/zircons.html
The first few lines are:

Dr. Humphreys' Young-Earth Helium Diffusion "Dates"

Numerous Fallacies Based on Bad Assumptions and Questionable Data

by Kevin R. Henke, Ph.D.
 
Copyright © 2005-2010
This document is also available in PDF format.
[Original version: March 17, 2005]
[Revisions: November 24, 2005; July 25, 2006 and June 20, 2010]
The following material may be distributed as long as the author is acknowledged, the material is not sold and the text and its internet links are not altered or edited.


Significant changes to rates of radiometric decay of isotopes relevant to geological dating have never been observed under any conditions. Emery (1972) is a comprehensive survey of experimental results and theoretical limits on variation of decay rates. Note that the largest changes reported by Emery are both irrelevant (they do not involve isotopes or modes of decay used for this FAQ), and minuscule (decay rate changed by of order 1%) compared to the change needed to compress the apparent age of the Earth into the young-Earthers' timescale

When can we see the peer reviewed results of experiments refuting this?



Here is some information you may have missed:


Earth Science Associates

Polonium Halos: Unrefuted Evidence for Earth's Instant Creation!

Fingerprints of Creation


   Did you know that scientific evidence abounds to support the biblical accounts of creation and the flood? Were you aware that reports outlining this evidence passed peer review, and were published in the open scientific literature? Have you heard that, decades later, this evidence still stands unrefuted by the scientific community?

An Overview

Etched within Earth's foundation rocks — the granites — are beautiful microspheres of coloration, halos, produced by the radioactive decay of primordial polonium, which is known to have only a fleeting existence [a half-life of three minutes].

The following simple analogy will show how these polonium microspheres — or halos — contradict the evolutionary belief that granites formed as hot magma slowly cooled over millions of years. To the contrary, this analogy demonstrates how these halos provide unambiguous evidence of both an almost instantaneous creation of granites and the young age of the earth.

A speck of polonium in molten rock can be compared to an Alka-Seltzer dropped into a glass of water. The beginning of effervescence is equated to the moment that polonium atoms began to emit radiactive particles. In molten rock the traces of those radioactive particles would disappear as quickly as the Alka-Seltzer bubbles in water. But if the water were instantly frozen, the bubbles would be preserved. Likewise, polonium halos could have formed only if the rapidly "effervescing" specks of polonium had been instantly encased in solid rock.

An exceedingly large number of polonium halos are embedded in granites around the world. Just as frozen Alka-Seltzer bubbles would be clear evidence of the quick-freezing of the water, so are these many polonium halos undeniable evidence that a sea of primordial matter quickly "froze" into solid granite. The occurrence of these polonium halos, then, distinctly implies that our earth was formed in a very short time, in complete harmony with the biblical record of creation.



Replies to Objections

Every question regarding the validity or implications of this polonium-halo evidence has been systematically dealt with, in our published reports and in various discussions with those holding differing views. We invite you to peruse the points we have raised in our exchanges, consider them, and decide for yourself the truth of the matter.

Of particular interest will be our recent discussion with the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) regarding the validity of our work.

In the Exchanges section of our website we've posted our letter to Dr. K. R. Walker, requesting the references to successful granite synthesis experiments that UT's Dr. Larry Taylor had referred to. We also have posted two letters from Dr. Brent Dalrymple that refer to the unrefuted Polonium evidence for the creation of granite.

Challenge to the National Academy of Sciences

The Academy has vehemently opposed creation science, even claiming that the evidence for creation has been scientifically invalidated. We have repeatedly challenged the Academy to publicly explain where the polonium-halo evidence for creation has ever been scientifically invalidated. For over 15 years, they have refused to even try, for they know that their statement is insupportable when it comes to the polonium-halo evidence.

We have posted here letters and other documents pertaining to our challenge to the National Academy of Science.

Reports

Our published reports date back to the 1960's. Twenty of these reports can be downloaded free of charge from this web site. A number of these also appear in the appendix to our book, Creation's Tiny Mystery.

Every question regarding the validity or implications of the polonium-halo evidence for creation has been systematically dealt with in our published reports. Every proposal for an evolutionary origin of polonium radiohalos has been systematically and experimentally falsified. No hypothetical, naturalistic scenario has yet been suggested that can account for Creation's "tiny mystery" of the polonium halo.

Of course, you can find claims to the contrary on the internet and elsewhere. But if these claims had any real substance, they would have passed peer review and been published in the open scientific literature. The fact that they have not been, or have themselves been experimentally falsified, demonstrates the fact that this unique evidence for Creation still stands unrefuted.

Some of our newest research concerns astronomy and cosmology. Our findings provide a radically new model of the cosmos while also showing why the Big Bang Theory is fatally flawed. For more on this topic, please see our sister site, Orion Foundation: Exposing the Flaws in the Big Bang Theory.

Tax-Funded arXiv Engaged in Religious Discrimination

Our sister site, Orion Foundation: Exposing the Flaws in the Big Bang Theory, has an entire section on this topic. Basically, what happened is that we posted ten papers outlining fatal flaws in the Big Bang theory on the arXiv, an internet service hosted at the time by Los Alamos National Laboratory. The arXiv distributes physics papers worldwide, and we had previously posted papers there with no problem. This time, when those in charge of the arXiv discovered that our papers very clearly outlined the fallacies of the Big Bang, and were supportive of a model of the universe that harmonizes with Genesis, the papers were removed. After we posted them again, they were removed a second time, and our password was revoked.

You can read the subsequent letters that were exchanged by clicking the links on the page "Documentation of Censorship by the Los Alamos National Laboratory arXiv Staff", a page on our sister site.

The arXiv is funded by tax funds. It is therefore inappropriate for the arXiv to discriminate on the basis of religion against scientists who do not ascribe to evolution.

Videos/DVDs

One of the easiest ways to learn more about polonium halos and similar evidence for creation is to watch our two videos, Fingerprints of Creation and The Young Age of the Earth. Both are available on VHS cassettes and DVD, and both can now be seen immediately over the internet as a free video stream.

Book

Our book, Creation's Tiny Mystery, by scientist Robert V. Gentry, chronicles the evidence of polonium halos, and the challenges of proposing a scientifically-based creation model of the Earth amidst the widespread acceptance by most scientists of ancient, evolutionary models.

The entire book may now be read online, but you'll also want the convenience of having a printed copy to peruse.

Evidence for Earth's Instant Creation - Polonium Halos in Granite and Coal - Earth Science Associates[/QUOTE]
 
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« Reply #1795 on: 04 March 2016, 4:15:32 AM »

MISinformation, you mean.

This site gives the facts:

http://paleo.cc/ce/halos.htm

It starts like this:

Unfounded Creationist Claims about Polonium Radiohalos

© Glen Kuban, 2006-2013
Young-earth advocate Robert Gentry claims that the presence of polonium radiohalos in certain rocks demonstrates that they are "primordial rocks" created almost instantaneously (within about 3 minutes) on day one of a literal creation week only several thousand years ago (Gentry, 1986). However, mainstream workers as well as other creationists have shown that geologic evidence invalidates his main thesis, and that serious problems exist in his methods, logic, and interpretations.

Quote
  The entire book may now be read online, but you'll also want the convenience of having a printed copy to peruse.

Evidence for Earth's Instant Creation - Polonium Halos in Granite and Coal - Earth Science Associates
   [/quote]

I am not planning to spend good money to read this book. Please send a link to the online copy. I will read it and comment.

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« Reply #1796 on: 04 March 2016, 4:24:58 AM »

MISinformation, you mean.

This site gives the facts:

http://paleo.cc/ce/halos.htm

It starts like this:

Unfounded Creationist Claims about Polonium Radiohalos

© Glen Kuban, 2006-2013
Young-earth advocate Robert Gentry claims that the presence of polonium radiohalos in certain rocks demonstrates that they are "primordial rocks" created almost instantaneously (within about 3 minutes) on day one of a literal creation week only several thousand years ago (Gentry, 1986). However, mainstream workers as well as other creationists have shown that geologic evidence invalidates his main thesis, and that serious problems exist in his methods, logic, and interpretations.

And yet no one has been able to refute his conclusions and when invited to show refutation have refused.

Quote
  The entire book may now be read online, but you'll also want the convenience of having a printed copy to peruse.

Evidence for Earth's Instant Creation - Polonium Halos in Granite and Coal - Earth Science Associates
 

Quote
am not planning to spend good money to read this book. Please send a link to the online copy. I will read it and comment.

You can read it free.
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« Reply #1797 on: 04 March 2016, 14:11:13 PM »

Quote
  And yet no one has been able to refute his conclusions and when invited to show refutation have refused. 

Read the article.

Quote
  Quote
am not planning to spend good money to read this book. Please send a link to the online copy. I will read it and comment.

You can read it free.   

Please supply link
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« Reply #1798 on: 05 March 2016, 15:58:00 PM »

If you are a creationist, you must also believe that the earth is flat:

Posted on the flat Earth Society’s website
By:
Personal Text: Flat Earth Knower
Gender: MaleAge:48
Location:Little Rock, Arkansas
You can't be a Christian and believe in a Round Earth

.

Many fundamentalist believe that the attacks on the Bible began with Charles Darwin. Although Darwin did a lot to attack the Bible and blaspheme against the ONE TRUE GOD, however it really all began with the blasphemy of the round earth theory (note the word "theory").

Here are some Bible verses that prove that the Earth is flat. If we can't trust the Bible when it comes to the shape of the earth, how can we trust it when it comes to Salvation?

"Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king “saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds.” Only with a flat earth could tall tree be visible from “the earth's farthest bounds,” — this is impossible on a spherical earth.

Matthew 4:8: "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world"

Luke 4:5: "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time."

Isaiah 11:12 "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

Revelation 7:1 "And after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

Likewise, the Bible shows that the earth is not free-falling from space, but it is standing firm on pillars:

“He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble.” Job 9:6

“Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? … Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?”  Job 38:4-6

Conclusion

If you claim to believe the Bible, you MUST believe in a flat, geocentric earth that is standing on pillars - just like I do.
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« Reply #1799 on: 06 March 2016, 17:36:03 PM »

Creationists who accept that the earth is an oblate spheroid need to study this


More biblical "evidence that the earth is flat"

http://www.testingtheglobe.com/bible.html

Here is an extract:

Scriptures concerning the nature of the heavens/sky above and their relationship to the earth:

Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

Job 22:14 (HCSB) Clouds veil Him so that He cannot see, as He walks on the circle of the sky.

Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psalm 104:
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

Proverbs 8:27 (ESV) When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Ezekiel 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

Amos 9:6 (NASB) The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth,
He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The Lord is His name.

Scriptures concerning the nature of the earth below the firmament:

Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 38:
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Genesis 1:
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

1 Samuel 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.

2 Samuel 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

1 Chronicles 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psalm 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Psalm 96:
9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.

Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Psalm 104:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Psalm 136:
6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Proverbs 8:
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isaiah 43:6 I'll say to the north, 'Give them up'! and to the south, 'Don't keep them back!' Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth—

Daniel 4:
10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:

Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.

Matthew 4:
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

John 17:24
Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Revelation 20:8 He will go out to deceive Gog and Magog, the nations at the four corners of the earth, and gather them for war. They are as numerous as the sands of the seashore.

Scriptures concerning the nature of the sun, moon and stars:

Genesis 1:
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Psalms 19:
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Psalm 136:
7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:
9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ecclesiastes 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Habakkuk 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

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